I picked up a copy of The Power of Myth from the library today. I'd been interested in reading it for a while now for a couple of reasons, the first being that I've been on a bit of a journey of self-discovery lately---who isn't, right?---which has involved me keeping a dream journal, which in turn has led to me reading up a fair bit on myth and archetype. Yeah. Whatever, it's fun. The second reason, though, is a little more complicated, and requires a little background. But before that, I think I need to explain what prompted this post.
When I opened the book, the first thing to catch my eye was that someone had written in pencil, above the Introduction:
"...the full assurance of understanding, to the knowledge and mystery of God, both of the Father and of Christ, in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. Now this I say lest anyone should decieve (sic) you through persuasive words...Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit...not according to Christ. Col. 2:2-8"Now, I take it as a positive sign that my first thought was, "Huh. Some douchebag on a holy mission", rather than "God is sending you a warning! Turn back! Oh noes!" That was, however, my very next thought, and I had to take a moment to talk myself through the panic before I could move on...which is a pretty clear sign that I'm not all better yet. Once I got past it, though, I began to read and found that Douchebag On A Mission (DOAM) had littered the margins with smarmy little notes.
"Who defines good?"
"Never talk about truth just what seems best."
"Professing to be wise, they became fools. Rom 1:22"
"Creation tells us things about God men understand but corrupt yet God is the same."
"Those principalities went against the Gospel just like Campbell."
And much as I wanted to fling the book across the room, I had to laugh. How could I not? It was like looking at myself through a mirror into the past. If it weren't someone else's handwriting---and if I didn't have some scrupulous aversion to writing in books in the first place---I'd have guessed it was me. Which, strangely enough, leads us back to my second reason for picking up this book, which again, as I said, requires a bit of background.
See, while the Christian high school I attended was pretty solid on academics, it was equally (if not primarily) concerned with instilling the proper worldview in its students, which meant making sure we all were properly equipped to view life through the lens of their peculiar subset of Christianity, so that we could go out into the public sphere and badger others into doing the same.
Geds the Accidental Historian wrote up a great little Field Guide to The North American Evangelical some time back, which should serve as a helpful reference to any of you unfamiliar with this subculture. By my senior year, I had become #6, Answers to Everything, a particularly obnoxious little breed who, out of her own raging insecurity, seeks to amass knowledge for herself to build up a sturdy defense against all comers. I can't say for the whole staff, but a fair number of teachers there were of the Answers to Everything variety as well, and seemed to uphold it as the highest standard of Christian virtue. And I, being an obliging, codependent little wench, wanted nothing more than to give the right answer and receive a pat on the head in return.
Anyway, senior year. English class. Mrs. Jacobs. She was one of my favorite teachers, actually, and still is. She was a funny, insightful woman who, in spite of it all, genuinely challenged us to think. Looking back, actually, I notice that most of my favorite teachers were my English teachers . They seemed to have a better sense of humor and a more relaxed approach to life and human nature than did, say, the Bible teachers---but I suspect that's true of anyone who routinely deals with literature outside of a bizarre, narrow interpretation one's own holy scriptures.
But that's not to say the English teachers were entirely exempt from the little quirks of the Evangelical mindset. As we sat there one balmy May afternoon, wishing for the final bell, Mrs. Jacobs stood before us and warned us to be on our guard as we went off to college: the ideology represented in the video she was about to play for us was now standard fare at most universities, and it represented a grave danger to our faith. We spent the rest of the week watching the PBS special with Bill Moyers and Joseph Campbell, with Mrs Jacobs piping up every so often to point out specific heresies we would no doubt encounter. I don't remember much about Campbell himself except that he said "metaphor" funny, and had really sweaty armpits. That much I remember. The embodiment of deception stood before us and he had sweaty armpits. I marveled at the banality of evil.
Months later, while my friends had all gone off to their colleges of choice, I was taking evening courses at community college with no real aim. I rationalized, of course. Two years here, then Berkeley. It's cheaper this way. People smiled and nodded, perhaps because they sensed that I needed them to. When two years had passed and I hadn't transferred, I had, by that time, become a very active member of a Charismatic church nearby, so it was very easy to decide that God had kept me at said junior college, in spite of my plans, for His greater purpose. Praise God. Every new turn of the story brought a new spin; a new understanding of God's divine plan. But of course it was all me: I hadn't turned in the things I needed to turn in, I had procrastinated until after all the due dates, mostly because I was afraid. I'd spent a lot of time online, avoiding friends and hiding from the decisions everyone kept saying I needed to make. In the end, I decided by not deciding, and now here I was, rotting in relative obscurity and embarrassment, while my friends were all off doing something to be proud of.
But I took deep comfort in the idea of "defending my faith", which, as most of you can probably guess, mainly meant cultivating a sense of persecution and striking back at imagined foes. In those moments, I didn't feel like a failure: I felt like a warrior. If my world looked mundane, that was only the illusion: everyday life was fraught with hidden meaning and significance, and I walked by faith, not by sight.
My first fall semester, I took a course in World Mythology. I can't exactly remember why, at the time, though I remember always liking mythology. I grew up reading Greek and Roman myths---sanitized for children, but still recognizable---and on hot summer nights, when we would sleep in the front room where it was cooler, my mom would put on the cassette of Navajo legends she'd brought back with her from one of her backpacking trips. As I drifted off to sleep I would watch the four arrows--- blue, yellow, white and black---stretching out into eternity as the world was born.
Of course, that was when I was a child, and I thought as a child, and now I put childish things behind me. I had a higher purpose, and I wouldn't be swayed. I bought the books for the class, one of which---wonder of wonders---happened to be by Joseph Campbell. The warnings from high school rang anew in my mind. My Peretti Novel Spidey Sense tingled as I noticed the black snakes entwined on the cover, and I left the bookstore with a renewed sense of importance. Campbell represented some vague, looming evil---a man who had set himself up against God, daring to address Christianity as one of many myths, instead of acknowledging, like C.S. Lewis, that Christianity was the fulfillment of all previous myths. A man who was singlehandedly deceiving millions. Not knowing what else to do, I spent the rest of the evening in the cafeteria, reading, and jotting down notes that sounded a whole helluva lot like the ones I found scribbled in the margins of the book I picked up today. At the time, I'd thought them an incisive apologia for the Christian faith. I happened upon them again when I was cleaning house a couple months ago, and found them, not surprisingly, to be an embarrassing example of Completely Missing The Point. Like DOAM, I'd been so defensive of what I'd been indoctrinated to believe, that I never really got what I was reading.
I rarely ever learned for the sake of learning, in those days. I either learned for the sake of having knowledge to put on display, or I learned for the sake of building a defense against what I was being taught, in order to preserve my brittle faith. And that's why, in spite of years of hard work, I remain pretty uneducated.
And it's why I picked up that book today. It's not entirely about it being a big "fuck you" to my indoctrinators, though I'll admit, that sure doesn't hurt. It's not even about sitting at the feet of Campbell and mindlessly absorbing all he has to say---I'm not looking for a new religion. It's about dropping the defensiveness and being willing to learn. If I were still one to couch things in Christian terms, I might call that humility*. It's about dropping the battle mindset, and being willing to see someone who disagrees with you as just that: a person, who happens to disagree with you. They don't represent The Enemy, and you sure as fuck don't represent God, at least no more than any of us do. You represent you. Why can't that be enough?
It's about liking myself enough for that to be enough.
And going from there.
* D'oh! Michael Mock points out in the comments that "humility" is by no means an exclusively Christian term, and he's absolutely right. Sorry about that. Unfortunately, for me the word had always been used in a religious context, so I still reflexively think of it as Christianese. Not sure how to fix that in the original post, so I'm patching it up here with an asterisk and a disclaimer.
13 comments:
Hiya Budgie!
Awhile back I retracted a super-long comment on a Geds post, and you mentioned you really wanted to see it. So, hoping you don't mind, I will post it here. After commenting on your post, of course!
I love dream interpretation. It's fun, it's highly personal, and if carried out with patience and diligence, it can give you useful insights about your deepest thoughts and feelings. And just as Geds recently explained regarding fairy tales, there's only one character in a dream. Every person and thing you meet down there is an aspect of yourself, teased out into separate components by the narrative of the dream, like light spectra refracted through a crystal.
I, like you, hate leaving marginalia. If I have really exclamation-pointy thoughts about a passage, I might draw a vertical line next to it in pencil. So that if the thoughts really are that great, they will recur to me next time I read the passage.
Leaving marginalia like the ones you describe is usually inspired by fear. The Rambling Taoist recently had a great post comparing the Christian worldview to The Truman Show. It's a totally immersive alternate reality, and to a believer, anything that threatens the worldview's structural integrity must be forcefully silenced. Christianity in that form has a massive fourth wall!
Which is actually a fine segue into that comment of mine. Here it is for your hopeful enjoyment!
Having a "personal relationship with God" means having God as the perfect, idealized invisible friend. There's been some good posts lately on Epiphenom (like this one) about this. Basically, religious people tend to have the same brain activities when thinking about God that they do when thinking about another human being with whom they have a relationship. And, as the linked post discusses, they react to a perceived offense against God in the same way that they would to a perceived threat against a human ally.
Let's say we don't buy the idea that each person with a "personal relationship with God" has actual divine messages being sent into their brains somehow. If that's the case, then such a person has an invisible friend with idealized characteristics they themselves selected. So a highly dysfunctional person's invisible friend will be as dysfunctional as that person needs them to be in order to feel maximally loved and validated. For someone with a lot of unresolved issues, the invisible friend they construct could be a pretty scary being.
And one's relationship with "God" is supposed to take precedence over all other relationships; the wishes of "God" are to override the wishes of all others, even one's conscious self. So it's pretty easy to imagine (or remember!) a believer for whom the invisible friend becomes an excuse to twist and distort their own emotional lives and hold their loved ones hostage. Hostage to needs and aversions that are supposedly planted in their hearts by an infinitely loving, eternal caregiver, but in actuality just bubbled up out of the parts of their unconscious minds that they're unwilling to face.
The Christianity from which I fled seems like a weird Invisible Friend Club, where everybody secretly agrees that their personal invisible friends are all on the same team, and no outsider is ever allowed to find out if the invisible friends disagree. The important thing is to present the unbelievers with a monolith.
"Our invisible friends make us happy, and tell us everything's okay. Our invisible friends are always right, and since we always agree with what they say, we are always right. Even if we make a mistake, it's okay, because our invisible friends say they forgive us and that's all that matters. And if we all say our invisible friend is the same person, and we all agree, and we all say we're happy, and they never catch us, then none of us is crazy or wrong."
But once you break the pact, you're dog meat. If you don't want your invisible friend anymore, or you say some other Invisible Friend Club member's friend isn't good and perfect like all the others, then it threatens everyone.
Or maybe your invisible friend and another person's invisible friend don't agree. They'll say that their friend is God, who's always right. So your friend must be Satan, who's always wrong, which also gives you cooties. So not only do you not get to be in the club anymore, you have cooties. Unless you admit to being a bad, bad girl or boy, take your cootie shots, and slink back in at the bottom of the pecking order.
Because if you tell one of them that your invisible friend isn't perfect and awesome, then you've broken kayfabe. You've talked to the fourth wall. You're saying that not only that person but everyone they love and trust is crazy and stupid and wrong about everything that matters most to them. Which is where the heightened sensitivity comes from. You may not intend your dissent as an attack, but that's what it feels like to them, because of the way the emotional investments are stacked. It's like a Jenga tower, and each block is a fellow believer.
And if that's not emotional blackmail then I am entirely mistaken about the meaning of the word blackmail.
Dream interpretation is fun. Even if nothing ever came of it, I think I'd still tool around with it just because I have a taste for the surreal. However, I started keeping a consistent dream journal back in August of last year, and it was amazing what I started noticing--and what, as a result, I began to change for myself. Also, I noticed that the more faithfully I recorded my dreams, the better my dream recall became. I even became lucid for the first time, which was one helluva trip. (And it wasn't just for funsies, either: the lucidity came on the heels of a pretty startling insight, so it was an awakening of sorts accompanied by an awakening within the dream. Very cool.)
If nothing else, I trust my dreams to tell the truth about me, including (or perhaps especially) the parts I'd rather not acknowledge. It forces me to be honest with myself, and as a result, I grow.
Also, I think that even though I've abandoned my faith, there's still a little part of me that's wired for mysticism, and fuddling about with my dreams sort of scratches that itch without having to wade through all the God baggage every time. I realize it may be different for other people; I know some people who have a really positive concept of God, and so, their faith serves as something of a vehicle for personal growth. And hey, cool. But I think having such a positive concept of God, while still taking the Bible even kind of literally, requires a lot more rationalizing than I have the energy or inclination to do anymore. My faith served as a hindrance to my growth---it kept me dependent and afraid and sort of fostered the worst in me.
I think your Invisible Friend Club description fits quite nicely for the type of Christianity I left behind as well. (Charismatic/Pentecostal? Just out of curiosity... I seem to remember you mentioning something a while back, but now I'm not quite sure.) Though I think presenting a monolith to outsiders probably isn't unique to Christianity---off the top of my head, it makes me think of Mom and Dad opting not to argue in front of the kids in order to present a united front. Which, I suppose, proves your point...it's about control, isn't it? And it's a pretty telling picture about how that variety of Christianity views the rest of the world. I imagine it's about marketing, as well. Evangelical Christianity, as I've come to understand it, sells certainty, and sells it hard. (Which is nice, for as long as you can make yourself believe it, because there is a kind of peace that comes with always having an explanation...)
Or maybe your invisible friend and another person's invisible friend don't agree. They'll say that their friend is God, who's always right. So your friend must be Satan, who's always wrong, which also gives you cooties.This was one of the crumbling points of my faith, actually: when I realized that I didn't agree with my church's demagogue of choice at the time. My church is pretty strongly into "prophetic" things, which means that they cotton onto certain people who they decide speak for God. And yeah, there's some half-assed acknowledgement that nobody's perfect and we're all human and sure they could be wrong, but truth be told, if you disagree with these spokespeople, then you kind of become suspect. And I'd fought long and hard for my good standing within the ranks. I feel silly admitting it now, but God dammit, I just wanted to belong somewhere. And when I realized that I didn't belong anymore, no matter how much I wanted to (even though they still think I do)...well, it took me a long time to recover from that. I had to get used to the idea of standing on my own. And it makes me think that it was never about God. It was always about belonging. It was always about never liking myself, and so, always looking for some sort of validation outside myself. Bleh.
But once you break the pact, you're dog meat. If you don't want your invisible friend anymore, or you say some other Invisible Friend Club member's friend isn't good and perfect like all the others, then it threatens everyone.Funny you use that phrase, "dog meat". It's what I explain to my husband: "If they found out about me, they'd eat me alive." They'd interpret my dissent as an attack, as you say, no matter how harmlessly I mean it. Interesting. I've spent so long being afraid of them...it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that we might both be afraid of each other...
At any rate, thanks for posting over here. I know how much it sucks to have to censor yourself in order to preserve relationships---you'd think a pseudonomynous blog would be one place you could get away with saying whatever the hell you want. (Hence mine.) Plus, from what I understand, your relationships you have to preserve are your actual family members. I can't imagine how hard that must be. You have my sympathies.
:D I noticed the same thing, that when I started writing down my dreams I started to remember them better. Writing them down also lets you tease out patterns, in structure and pace as well as more obvious symbols. Every part of a dream scenario is something your unconscious mind selected for a reason.
Congrats to you on going lucid, and doing it au naturale! I haven't had lucid dreams myself since I was a kid. At the time I was experimenting with my alarm clock, getting up and then going back to sleep, because I'd been having nightmares and wanted to be able to go back into my dreams and change the endings. Hopefully I'll get back naturally to the lucidity I achieved back in the day by brute force. But for now I'm happy to have a good working relationship with the parts of myself that put the dreams together. ;) Lassie tells you more things if she realizes you listen when she tries to tell you something.
Also, I think that even though I've abandoned my faith, there's still a little part of me that's wired for mysticism, and fuddling about with my dreams sort of scratches that itch without having to wade through all the God baggage every time.
You hit that nail on the head. I was raised charismatic Pentecostal, the kind with prophecy and speaking in tongues and ecstatic trances. (Back in December I made a long post about it.)
The churches we went to were never much into talking about demons, but my mom was, in a quiet sort of way. I grew up believing that demons were all around me all the time, some trying to get inside me, others already there and controlling my actions in ways I couldn't detect. I only really felt demon-free when I was actually in one of those ecstatic church services, surrounded by the intense waves of energy from the congregation around me.
So when I deconverted, it was because of the demons. My whole life everyone had promised that all I had to do was pray to Jesus, and if I submitted myself to Him completely and had enough faith, He would protect me from the demons or make them go away. Outside of church services, that never, ever happened. In my teens I decided I was tired of assuming I just wasn't good enough, sincere enough, submitted enough for Jesus to want to help me. So I apologized to God, and started wrangling the demons myself. Which worked. It didn't make everything go away instantly; my progress was slow but noticeable. But it was different. Something was getting done. That was a novel experience!
So when you say:
My faith served as a hindrance to my growth---it kept me dependent and afraid and sort of fostered the worst in me.I'm like--yeah! Right on!
I was an insufferable mouse as a Christian, and my poetry sucked because I was trying to write with about 60% of my personality on-line. My self-esteem was in the toilet, but I was a smartass and a know-it-all and wouldn't let people finish sentences because I wanted to be the one with all the answers. I would burst into tears at the slightest criticism because I was certain it was true.
Though I think presenting a monolith to outsiders probably isn't unique to Christianity---off the top of my head, it makes me think of Mom and Dad opting not to argue in front of the kids in order to present a united front. Which, I suppose, proves your point...it's about control, isn't it? And it's a pretty telling picture about how that variety of Christianity views the rest of the world.The Mom and Dad analogy is perfect, because that's the role the Christians I know take with me. Like a concerned parent sugar-coating harsh truths for a petulant child. Or ironically, in the case of my mom, an actual parent dancing around harsh truths so as not to antagonize a dangerous and willful and presumably cruel child. Ha! I was cruel as a Christian in ways I wouldn't dream of now.
Funny you use that phrase, "dog meat". It's what I explain to my husband: "If they found out about me, they'd eat me alive." They'd interpret my dissent as an attack, as you say, no matter how harmlessly I mean it. Interesting. I've spent so long being afraid of them...it's hard for me to wrap my head around the idea that we might both be afraid of each other...Weird thing is, I had a dream just last night that involved me escaping from a bus filled with Christians, then watching dogs and goats and wolves all mixed together. And none of the dogs could tell which ones were wolves until they started trying to eat the goats.
Anyway. When my relatives first invaded my blog, my quip at the time was "well, now my den is filled with lions, and the lions are Christians!" Yeah, they are scary. But like the parent says to the kid who's hiding from the mouse they say in the kitchen, "he's more afraid of you than you are of him."
I know you remember what it was like living in that bubble! Talking, let alone getting emotionally close to a nonbeliever is a terrifying experience for them. Because they know they can't rely on their intellect to guide them through the situation--intellect is suspect at best, and a tool of Satan at worst. So they have to rely on emotional guidance, because God speaks to you from your heart. But there's so many conflicting emotions. They know they have to feel compassion for you and act from that, because you're a sinner in need of God's healing grace. But you're also a dangerous adversary, under the sway of Satan. You might turn on them and attack them for their faith. And since, as you mention, Christianity is all about needing to belong, a perceived attack hurts them way more than it would someone else, because you're branding them an outcast in their eyes, which is a kick right to the belongy-bone. Or alternatively, you might try to reach into their minds and corrupt them against God, using sneaky devilish wiles which could take any form at all.
So you're dangerous, an ally of the enemy, poised to corrupt or emotionally mutilate them at any moment. Even being near you is a terribly spiritual risk. But they will brave the terrible danger because of their great love for you, and the possibility that they might have a chance to rescue you from your life of danger and horror, horrors to which Satan has blinded you, preventing you from even recognizing the immortal peril in which you live.
And you, you ungrateful heathen, have the nerve, the unmitigated gall, to say that THEY are threatening YOU. They're trying to help you! Quite literally for God's sake! They brave unthinkable, bowel-quaking peril just to give you a chance to hear their message of truth and love and goodness! And you repay them by acting as if they'd somehow demeaned or badgered you? Whew! They're gonna have to go pray to Jesus with all their hearts for the strength to forgive you. And the compassion and resolve to try again, no matter how badly your selfishness hurts them.
...Okay. >_< I've run super long and gone and made myself angry again. I'm'a go make some tea, and meditate and ask my invisible friends (who all, unlike Jesus, took the trouble to introduce themselves to me, and give me clues on the limits of what help they could provide!) for advice on how to be patient about this.
Because oh yeah. They're my family. I know they're more afraid of me than I am of them, hard as that is to believe. I know because I remember being one of them. And I really don't want to hurt them, even though their whole scary groupthink is set up so that anything I do other than conform MUST hurt them. Terribly.
How do you work to free people who think you are the one in need of rescue? How do you do it?
If my invisible friends have any ideas, I will be sure to pass them along.
I'm sorry if anything I said kicked up bad feelings. If it helps, I admire the hell out of you for taking the steps you did. If I'd been raised within the Charismatic church, I don't know that I ever would have had the strength or even the awareness to leave.
So I apologized to God, and started wrangling the demons myself.That. There's so much courage in that, especially since, in this variety of Christianity, there is no room for respectful disagreement with God. There is submission, or there is rebellion. (Which is funny, considering all the arguing with God we see throughout the Old Testament, where God actually concedes---repents, even.) My God was the worst kind of parent, and actually, it was becoming a parent myself that really accelerated the whole process of abandoning my faith. It was one thing if I was miserable with all these bullshit hangups, but there was no way in hell I wanted to pass this on to my daughter. I tried to hang on to God in all this, but in the end, I couldn't separate the kind God of my childhood from the Asshole God I'd come to know, and I decided that the threat of hell was worth the risk, to make sure her life was better.
I was an insufferable mouse as a Christian, and my poetry sucked because I was trying to write with about 60% of my personality on-line. My self-esteem was in the toilet, but I was a smartass and a know-it-all and wouldn't let people finish sentences because I wanted to be the one with all the answers. I would burst into tears at the slightest criticism because I was certain it was true.Good god. Every last word of that paragraph... We coulda been twins.
And I totally hear you on the stifled personality front. In my understanding, everything I did had to "bring glory to God", so as a result, all of my work was all very messagey and contrived. (Purpose-Driven, even!) I think, back then, I was afraid of letting out any message that didn't actively support the party line, which is why I kept the controls on so heavy. I suspect that happens a lot, though. I think a lot of fundies are afraid of the message they really carry within them---terrified that they might be something other than the walking advertisement they've convinced themselves they ought to be.
How do you work to free people who think you are the one in need of rescue? How do you do it?Wish I knew. I don't think you can. I mean, I can point to all the external things and people and personal epiphanies that helped me to change, but they were all there before, when I was still neck-deep in my faith. It didn't make a damn bit of difference until I was ready to change. Until I'd had enough.
Not that that helps, I guess. Sorry.
Anyway, I do hope you feel safe to come back around once the anger subsides. It's nice hearing from someone who understands.
Don't worry, my friend! You're cool! *offers hugs and warm caffeinated things*
I just have a bad habit of letting my rants get out of hand and dragging up stuff I was already mad about. Partially because of the whole having to censor myself on my own blog situation. I do things in your comment thread I would normally be doing "at home." Which includes making myself angry in order to deal with stuff I would otherwise have let fester. So, thank you. :) For indulging me.
And for saying I have courage. Thank you again. *beams* Even now I sometimes feel that leaving was the coward's way out. Since if I really had guts or stones or brass ovaries or what have you, I would have stuck it through to the end, ya?
But it's weird. The invisible force I've secretly come to associate with the word "god" never bothered to give me a name or a face or anything to hang my hat on. Yet it's stuck with me through tribulation and deconversion and my much more recent indecisive agony about the spiritual status of my "saved" loved ones. Even if I don't think they've got the something matched up with the names, even if I don't think the names and the stories they're fixed on are the whole of the story, I still think there's a something, and that something is uber sweet. And I don't think the something gives a damn what stories we use or what names we call on, if any, as long as we do whatever it is we're supposed to do. If that makes any sense at all.
It was one thing if I was miserable with all these bullshit hangups, but there was no way in hell I wanted to pass this on to my daughter. I tried to hang on to God in all this, but in the end, I couldn't separate the kind God of my childhood from the Asshole God I'd come to know, and I decided that the threat of hell was worth the risk, to make sure her life was better.See, you rock, and I have great respect for you for this. Ironically it's like that thing the Bible says: "Greater love has no man than this, that he will lay down his life for his friend." And you were willing to put your soul on the line--not, like me, because you'd had enough of a private torment, but to protect your child from an anguish you knew all too well. I think that is a noble deed, and one of which any merciful god would approve. Even if the god of the Hebrew stories and the Christian mythos points the way to the real something, that god would not approve of the way our compatriots twist its message in order to hurt people and lie to them. That is what I think.
I suspect that happens a lot, though. I think a lot of fundies are afraid of the message they really carry within them---terrified that they might be something other than the walking advertisement they've convinced themselves they ought to be.It is a favorite rant of mine that self-styled "prayer warriors" are often the most squeamish people on earth. Won't get emotionally close to a heathen because of the spiritual danger. Won't walk into an occult bookstore because of the resident "demons". (Like most "prayer warriors" could tell a demon from a hole in the ground!) Won't let someone bring a tarot deck into their house because of the immortal peril. Fuck.
If their salvation is such mighty protection against all manner of spiritual ills, why the fear? The Bible says they should be able to brave death and drink deadly poisons without worry. So why all the heebie-jeebies at the slightest mention of "magical" things that should be no more than a gnat's footstep to an anointed representative of the Christ?
I even wrote a song lyric about it:
"And you call yourself free
But I say that's a crock
When you live your whole life
Hiding under that rock"
'S why I didn't do much proselytizing when I was a Christian. Made me feel dirty.
Here's where I'm coming from with this. And a big fat slice of my life story while we're at it! Again I am grateful for your indulgence.
When I was a kid and my parents were getting divorced, my mom went a leetle bit nuts with the charismatic stuff. Here was a frightened middle-aged woman whose life was out of control, who tried to use religion to establish some kind of order in the household she had left. My big sister had moved out with my dad, and it was just Mom and me and my little sister. If we misbehaved, it was either Dad's evil influence turning us against her, or demons. If things weren't going her way, it was Satan trying to thwart her attempts to bring godly values to our shattered household. This, plus my whacked-out Pentecostal grade school, was the crucible in which my understanding of Christianity was forged.
So now, as a twentysomething, I can see how my associations of Christianity may be false. Perhaps God is different than the Asshole God I came to know in those dark days of slightly more than a decade ago. I've explored as far as I've been willing into the world, visible and invisible, that has been within my reach. But I've still never experienced anything that made me think the only path to righteousness and spiritual immortality is to go back into the spiritual and social structure, fraught with human mistakes, that I so narrowly escaped. I just don't think god gives a damn about the forms and the names and the baggage. Just our attitude towards ourselves and each other and our place in the universe.
It didn't make a damn bit of difference until I was ready to change. Until I'd had enough.
Not that that helps, I guess. Sorry.Yes! It does help, a lot! *more hugging! and cake!* See it helps me have hope. For my big sister, who turned back to Christianity in her grief over Dad's suicide, and even for Mom, who turned to her weird version of Christianity in the panic of pregnancy and seemingly never looked back. There is more to god, whatever it is, than they make of it. And maybe someday they will be ready to change. Maybe I've just got to be to them what they are trying with such pathos and anguished sincerity to be to me.
For indulging you? Anytime, hon. We all need a bitching post, I say. Make yourself comfy. :)
Even now I sometimes feel that leaving was the coward's way out. Since if I really had guts or stones or brass ovaries or what have you, I would have stuck it through to the end, ya?
You know, I get what you're saying there, but I still don't buy it. I think it takes bigger, brassier ovaries to take a good hard look at everything you've known all your life and say, "Sorry. This just isn't working for me." To walk away from all that's familiar and strike out on your own. Not to mention having to deal with all the resulting pity and disdain and manipulation and genuinely hurt feelings from all the people you love. And with knowing that you did the right thing for yourself, but being unable to convince the people you care about that it was right. (Or maybe that last one's just me.)
And personally, I think it takes more strength to be able to leave a bad relationship---divine or not---because you've had enough of the private torment. Or at least a greater level of self-respect. I think, on some level, I assumed I deserved the suffering, and it took someone outside to make me rethink that. How cool are you, for being able to come to that on your own?
The invisible force I've secretly come to associate with the word "god" never bothered to give me a name or a face or anything to hang my hat on. Yet it's stuck with me through tribulation and deconversion and my much more recent indecisive agony about the spiritual status of my "saved" loved ones.
That's cool, though, that you've been able to keep that sort of connection through all that. I tried, but it didn't happen. It's sort of complicated, though, and I think deserves a post of its own.
And I don't think the something gives a damn what stories we use or what names we call on, if any, as long as we do whatever it is we're supposed to do. If that makes any sense at all.
Actually, that makes a lot of sense, and I think if there is a God out there, that he/she/it is something more like that. At least, I hold out hope. I think that's my last little shred of faith: that if there is a God, he's not an asshole. I, uh...I don't have it worked out much beyond that. It is the teeniest mustard seed of a thing, but every once in a while it pops back up and reminds me it's there. But it's the sort of thing I'd have scoffed at back in my fundie days, and I suspect any of my church/high school friends would scoff as well...because I've gone soft on holiness and sin, compromised my values, and I'm led astray by some some namby-pamby feelgood God that isn't any God at all, and boy oh boy, won't the REAL God be righteously PISSED!!
I can only hope, if there is a God, and I stand before him in some Big-Ass Day of Reckoning, that he will know that this was my way of showing respect: by refusing to believe all the horrible rumors about him. That even though I couldn't mentally separate him from all the awful things I'd been taught, that I showed, by my actions, that I was holding out hope that He was better than I'd heard, that grace was something real...and that my faith in that was such that I'd put my own salvation on the line.
(If THAT makes any sense at all.)
It is a favorite rant of mine that self-styled "prayer warriors" are often the most squeamish people on earth. Won't get emotionally close to a heathen because of the spiritual danger. Won't walk into an occult bookstore because of the resident "demons". (Like most "prayer warriors" could tell a demon from a hole in the ground!) Won't let someone bring a tarot deck into their house because of the immortal peril. Fuck.
Ok, ok.
Ok.
True confession time! A few years back, I was given an assignment in an illustration class, to design two tarot cards. I asked (and was given) permission to do playing cards instead, because of the whole eeeeevil tarot thing. Also, a couple years before that, in an aikido class, we were made to line up and bow to all the forces in the universe...or within yourself...or something like that. And guess who refused? Oh yeah. I mean, I felt a bit embarrassed and conspicuous, and made up some bullshit excuse about my back, but still.
However! In spite of all my goofy scruples and holy tics, I still felt very spiritually inferior because my friend---who had been raised Pentecostal, and totally heard from God all the time (including weather forecasts! No joke!)---this friend got headaches whenever he walked near a Catholic church. Hell, I'd spent the past ten years going to Mass with my dad and stepmom, and never felt the slightest affliction (unless you count boredom). *sigh* I feel like such a dork, sometimes, when I look back on it all. But I really really wanted to believe in it, to be a part of it, you know? They offered something. They offered certainty, and a place to belong, and something secret and mystical and big, and I really wanted to make it work.
I cut off vital parts of me to make myself fit, and then I wondered why I felt like I was dying.
I just don't think god gives a damn about the forms and the names and the baggage. Just our attitude towards ourselves and each other and our place in the universe.I think you've nailed it, and that kinda sums up how I've chosen to live. And it ties in, sorta, to what I told my husband, when he asked me something about my "not believing in God" anymore. It's not that I don't believe, or that I do. It's that---well, and it took me a long time to come around to this, because I'd always had it pounded in my head that this was THE! BIG! IMPORTANT! QUESTION!, so the thought of being ambiguous on it had never occured to me as an option---but I realized that it didn't matter to me one way or the other, whether or not God existed. It didn't change the way I acted toward people or whether or not I tried to do good. It didn't change how I lived my life. So that's why---and I think I got this description from Geds, actually---is why I consider myself, functionally, an atheist. I used to call myself an "agnostic with an imaginary friend"---which was fun, and made people smile when I told them---but then I came to realize my friend wasn't very friendly at all, and so I started talking to him less and less. And now, here we are.
I'm sorry about your dad, by the way. I can't even begin to imagine the pain of that.
Maybe I've just got to be to them what they are trying with such pathos and anguished sincerity to be to me.I think that's all you can do. It's sort of like that saying, "Living well is the best revenge"...but, you know, minus the revenge part. To be able to be happy and fulfilled, without needing the magic formula that they insist you need, has got to fuck with their preconceived notions about what an unbeliever's life looks like. And, as I'm thinking this out, I can see the danger of it sounding like that oh-so-familiar churchy act: "YOU NEED TO BE HAPPY ALL THE TIME BECAUSE THEY NEED TO SEE THAT THIS JESUS THING REALLY WORKS, DAMMIT", but that's not what I mean. I think that, even if they never change, they'll at least have to acknowledge at some point that being "out from under the umbrella of God's protection" doesn't look all that much different from being under it, and that maybe life's just the same all around? I dunno. I think I'm losing my point here, but I don't know how to fix it. Hopefully you get what I mean...
I once signed the guestbook at a Quaker meeting with a "Jesus is Lord." I am mortified typing that out even years later. Fortunately I was able to re-visit the book a year later and cross out my nasty arrogance, but it still makes me feel bad that whoever saw it for that year.
I really liked your closing lines, what a joy it is to have that kind of freedom:
"It's about dropping the battle mindset, and being willing to see someone who disagrees with you as just that: a person, who happens to disagree with you. They don't represent The Enemy, and you sure as fuck don't represent God, at least no more than any of us do. You represent you."
Yeah, I know that feeling. I think back on some conversations I've had with friends and family back when I was living in Fundy Land, and I feel so...oh god, so embarrassed and so ashamed. I've made similar comments, and behind it there was always this superiority, this conquest mentality, like pissing on trees for Jesus. I wouldn't worry, though. I know a couple Quakers, and they seem to be a forgiving bunch. If I ever steer my rickety little boat back toward any sort of Christianity, the Quakers are probably some of the first people I'd look up.
As for the closing lines, yes, there is SO much joy in that freedom--it's like I can finally relax. More joy than I ever found "in Christ", because this kind doesn't depend on anybody else but me, and can't be taken away. But it's hard to explain that to friends who insist that the only true joy is found in Christ. To them, you're just deceived, or in rebellion. (It's why I've avoided outing myself wherever possible. Not sure if that counts as cowardly, or just picking my battles.)
" But it's hard to explain that to friends who insist that the only true joy is found in Christ. To them, you're just deceived, or in rebellion. (It's why I've avoided outing myself wherever possible. Not sure if that counts as cowardly, or just picking my battles.)"
It's a catch 22, Christians deny you can be happy if you don't keep trusting Jesus, so your happiness proves that theory wrong. But then the fact that you are happy shows how hard hearted and/or deceived you have become.
I totter on the fence between "outing" myself more, for the freedom to be myself, or remaining low key, to avoid the conflict that ensues, knowing the conflict tends to be fruitless and push people to believe all the more that I am in the wrong. Same catch 22. So far I have followed the maxim, "discretion is the better part of valor," but I always question whether I am using it wisely or as a cop out.
I'm not sure if this is an appropriate contribution, or even on topic, so... if it's unwanted input, feel free to delete it. That said...
I don't think it's just a matter of Asshole God - I think you're also dealing with the results of prolonged exposure to Asshole Christianity.
I mention this because I think it might help, on some level, to realize that what you went through is not necessarily typical of Christianity. (Though it does seem to be typical of certain strains of Charismatic/Evangelical Christianity.) I was raised Episcopalian, and while the priests and youth ministers did occasionally nod in the direction of "God wants us to be good examples, and share the Good News", we didn't have anything like the pressure to conform (or to evangelize) that you've described.
And when I realized that I didn't believe, and left the church, it wasn't that big a deal. I didn't feel especially guilty, or angry, or betrayed, or betraying. I just wandered away and never went back. (To borrow a line from Good Omens, I didn't so much Fall as Saunter Vaguely Downward.) I still send my son off to church with my parents on Sundays (it gives my wife time to grade); and I don't feel especially uncomfortable about leaving him there, or about being there myself. Plenty of the congregants remember me from when I was younger, and they know I don't attend services, but nobody gives me any grief about it.
As I said when I started, I don't know if that helps, or even if it really contributes anything. I don't even mean to defend Christianity, really. It just seems to me that the people I've met who were most damaged by their religion were also exposed to a particularly xenophobic, isolated, and controlling version of Christianity, one which (in my personal experience) isn't at all typical. And I guess what I'm really trying to express is something that strikes me as an additional sadness about your situation: it didn't have to be that way.
Oh, and I forgot a small aside: I would argue that "humility" is far from being an exclusively Christian term...
Oh, no, you're perfectly within bounds. Welcome! (Besides, you could probably cuss me out from here to Tuesday and I'd STILL have to give you a pass for quoting Good Omens. ;))
Before I answer your first post, I'll say that you're absolutely right that "humility" is in no way an exclusively Christian concept. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure how to go about fixing it, so I've gone for the cheap solution of tacking up a disclaimer onto the main post.
I don't think it's just a matter of Asshole God - I think you're also dealing with the results of prolonged exposure to Asshole Christianity.
And I'd agree with you. The thing is though, that certainly isn't the only type of Christianity I've been exposed to, or even the first type. I realize I didn't make this clear in my post (it just didn't seem to fit anywhere), but my parents weren't fundies. Yeah, they sent me to a fundie school, but none of us really know at the time how bad it was (the administrators presented themselves as pretty moderate when they were showing us around, and my parents had no way of recognizing all the dogwhistles). My dad was raised as a nominal Presbyterian, identified as an atheist for much of my childhood, then dutifully Catholic'd up so he could marry my stepmom. My mom, if I had to pigeonhole her, is sort of vaguely evangelical. She grew up among crazy fundies, but never quite fit in, and always got in trouble for asking difficult questions. And for being pro-choice.
Anyway, all that to say that I had a number of fine examples to turn to in search of a saner faith and a better God, and that's just within my immediate family. Also, I still hang around over at Slacktivist, and count Fred among one of the many reasons I began to question Asshole Christianity. And if I could have just left Asshole Christianity for a better version with a better God, I would have. That was my primary aim, when I began to question my faith. Leaving Christianity altogether was not something I'd ever considered an option. It was just too alien, too wrong. Of course I believed in God. I just had to read the Bible, and get to know the REAL God.
Unfortunately, the Bible is one of the top places you'll find Asshole God, and much of the time, He'll be scolding you for seeking out someone better than Him.
Anyway, you seem to have gone about it in a pretty straightforward way: you left your faith because you realized you didn't believe anymore. Mine was the other way around. I stopped following God first, even though I still figured he existed, because I realized the one I served was abusive (and all my attempts at adopting a better one had been pretty much a wash) and I didn't want my daughter growing up thinking that this sort of cosmic battered spouse act was normal and right. And then, when my life went on about the same---smitings mysteriously absent---I was finally willing to examine the evidence for God himself.
I guess I just couldn't do that while I was still emotionally attached to the guy.
The church you were raised in sounds like a reasonable bunch, and I know there are many more churches out there like that. I looked into a few, briefly (Episcopalians were near the top of my list, probably second only to Quakers). So yeah, I know it didn't have to be that way. But honestly, I'm not terribly sad about it. I don't mourn the loss of my faith or my God, because it marked the birth of my self-respect. And maybe that's your point: that it's sad that someone would feel they have to choose between faith and self-respect, and I guess I'd agree with you there. But where I stand right now, I think I'm better for it. Sure, some people derive great comfort from their faith, but for me, even at its best, faith never gave a whole lot of comfort that didn't end up being more destructive in the long run. So perhaps it was best that I was pushed to the point where I would scrap it completely.
You know, I posted an introduction up at the top, and then remembered that I had commented here before. Need more coffee, I guess. Scrolled down, and saw your response...
Anyway, I'm not sure I had a point, as such; my comment was more of an essay (in the sense of 'an exploration in writing'). I do a lot of my best thinking through the keyboard.
I don't (unsurprisingly) think that finding a better brand of Christianity is necessarily a better course than walking away from the religion entirely. It probably does work better for some people, but clearly it doesn't work at all for others. ::shrugs:: People are like that.
Anyway, thanks for the welcome.
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